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Help Needed for Very Fine, Awkward, Straight Hair
01-19-2014, 05:32 PM
Post: #1
Help Needed for Very Fine, Awkward, Straight Hair
Hi guys, this is going to be long so please bear with me!

As mentioned in another thread, I'm into classic / business sort of hairstyles and side-parts.

The problem lies with my hair type - which is extremely fine - and the growth pattern, which makes things awkward.

Hair Type
For an idea of how fine my hair is, straight from the shower I can use a towel until it's just damp enough for styling, and five minutes later it's completely dry. I have to wash it every morning due to the greasiness, otherwise you can see through to my scalp easily. This means I also have to be very careful with the amount and type of product I use. I've found I can only get away with lighter water-based pomades such as American Crew, and even then I have to use small amounts or I face the same problems as when I don't wash it. Slicked, combed styles typically look limp and greasy. There's no natural volume with my hair at all, I get best results with a hair-dryer and round brush but have recently started experimenting with those powder-based products that are applied to the roots. Finally, unless I have set the hair in place with a lot of spray, the slightest breeze or a fine drizzle will pretty much remove the style. Unfortunately there's a lot of that type of weather here!

Growth Pattern
The first problem lies with the position and direction of my crown / whorl. It sits high on the right hand side and runs counter-clockwise. No problem right, just part on the right and sweep left. Whilst that's fine for the crown, I have a cowlick in my hairline that wants everything to sweep right as most men would. If I force it left, it sticks up very prominently and looks silly, like a cardboard cut-out quiff if you can imagine that; okay from the front, but almost 2D from the side if that makes sense. Also, I don't know if this is normal but the hair on the left of my head grows forwards and away from my scalp (sticks out, so I have to flatten it), but on the right it grows backwards and sits closer to the scalp.

Current Style
At the moment I have it faded with scissors at the side and back, as clippers somehow make it appear thinner. I have it longer on top, and choose the lesser of two evils by having the hair swept to the right. Partings on the left can look a bit strange as they run diagonally up and across to the crown, which is almost forced to run clock-wise to match the style. In fact, when styling it like this as I normally do, the hair from the crown running left converges with the rest of my hair running right somewhere in the middle as you'll see in the photo I highlighted. You'll notice in the same photo that you can see through to the scalp even from the side of the crown / whorl. Grrr.

My normal procedure is to use a very small amount of pomade and gel, apply it to towelled, damp hair and blow-dry whilst styling. Sometimes with a round brush, other times with just my fingers. Then I have to spend ages trying to get the hair around the crown to sit right, as it can appear like I'm balding otherwise. I think forcing it to lay against its natural growth reveals the scalp more. Sometimes I'll use some dry shampoo which can make it look better if it just won't sit right. I don't have this problem when sweeping everything to the left, but as mentioned I then have the hairline issue instead. Finally, I use a lot of strong hairspray to hold it in position or the style is gone by the time I get to work. It has to be the sort that sets the hair hard like a shell, otherwise it doesn't work. Again, I have a problem if I use too much trying to compensate for uncooperative sections. I really envy those who can get up and wear their hair straight from bed, or whack a little product in and it's ready to go. If I'm not in a position where I can wash it - camping for example - then it looks and feels terrible. This will probably sound silly, but I have to be careful of anything brushing past my hair, as it's just not strong enough to hold the style. If I take my jumper off at work for example, that's it!

I've taken some pics both with and without pomade and styling, so that you can hopefully get an idea of my situation. In the styled pics, I decided to try letting it dry naturally, and applied the pomade after; TheMensHairForum wanted to know what my hair was like with just pomade (and a comb, although I didn't use one here), and this was as much product as I dared use as I was on my way out. You'll see from the photo that I didn't even use half a pea-sized amount! If I had used more, it probably would have been really limp and greasy-looking.

I suppose the reason for this post is that I'm tired of my hair and the daily routine. I'd like to know if there's a better / faster / less fussy way for me to style my hair and achieve the look I'm going for. I know I can't change the position and direction of the whorl, but perhaps I can start running my hair from right to left and train the cowlick at the front to behave. When I spend enough time on it, I like the way it looks (from certain angles!) and I can get a bit of volume. Maybe I should simply accept I can't have that sort of look without a lot of hassle, and change the style completely; in which case I'd appreciate suggestions of what would suit me.

If you made it this far, thanks for your time!

Hmm, for some reason I can't post photobucket pics even without the click-able link. Perhaps a mod could help me out?
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01-21-2014, 02:27 PM
Post: #2
RE: Help Needed for Very Fine, Awkward, Straight Hair
You can now post pictures.

I'm one of the admins of this forum. Any questions/issue? Contact me directly or any of the moderators. We welcome any feedback to improve our community.

You can also check out our forum's BEST HAIR PRODUCTS FOR MEN thread to read opinions and useful information on men's hair products.
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01-21-2014, 03:06 PM
Post: #3
RE: Help Needed for Very Fine, Awkward, Straight Hair
(01-21-2014 02:27 PM)TheMensHairForum Wrote:  You can now post pictures.

Thanks Smile

First three pictures are freshly washed, no product
[Image: Frontnoproduct.jpg]
[Image: Topnoproduct.jpg]
Some of the hair around the crown actually starts laying in the direction I usually style it, I guess because I've been doing it so long
[Image: Crownnoproduct.jpg]

These pictures are with a very small amount of pomade applied with fingers after hair dried naturally. I wanted to get as close to TheMensHairForum's request of pomade + comb.
[Image: Frontwithpomade.jpg]
[Image: Leftwithpomade.jpg]
This picture shows how the two directions of hair sort of meet in the middle
[Image: Right-with-pomade.jpg]
The following picture demonstrates the problem I have with product on my crown when sweeping hair left to right as I normally do. As mentioned, I sometimes use dry shampoo to reverse the effects and fluff it up a little. When I see this I think I should just start sweeping my hair to the left instead, but my hairline makes this difficult.
[Image: Crownwithpomade.jpg]
This one's to show just how small the amount of pomade was. It's perhaps not even half the size of a green pea.
[Image: Pomadequantity.jpg]

Thanks for any advice you may have!
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01-21-2014, 03:18 PM
Post: #4
RE: Help Needed for Very Fine, Awkward, Straight Hair
This is one I've just taken now, after applying the pomade this morning with some gel whilst the hair was damp, then blow-drying and finishing with 'volumizing' powder + hairspray. As you can see, it looks better than when applying the pomade to dry hair, but it still lays awkward when the rest of the hair is going from left to right:
[Image: 2014-01-21-2208.jpg]
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01-21-2014, 05:17 PM
Post: #5
RE: Help Needed for Very Fine, Awkward, Straight Hair
Hey rhsccw, those are some good pictures you have taken. I'll try posting later/tomorrow a more detailed answer as I have briefly skimmed your post but, just like I mentioned to you in another thread, you will benefit heaps from a volumizing hair mousse and a hair dryer if you want to get more volume on your hair but with that volume being fully controllable and as much as you want. Your hair type and density fall exactly into the profile of men's hair that benefits the most from such hair mousse plus hair dryer combination.

The voluminizing hair mousse and hair dryer that will work great are this particular hair mousse and this high-quality hair dryer. With regards to pomade, I think by now we can discard its use in your case as your hair (being low density with thick hair strands) lays fat and wet (or greasy as you mentioned) especially if you are not selecting a good hair pomade and just going with something cheap and greasy like a Murray's pomade.

I'll try to expand on the above later and I'll see if any of the other big guys in the forum can chine in. However, do have a look at the hair mousse and hair dryer suggested as that's exactly what you need.

I'm one of the admins of this forum. Any questions/issue? Contact me directly or any of the moderators. We welcome any feedback to improve our community.

You can also check out our forum's BEST HAIR PRODUCTS FOR MEN thread to read opinions and useful information on men's hair products.
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01-22-2014, 01:21 AM
Post: #6
RE: Help Needed for Very Fine, Awkward, Straight Hair
Thanks for your reply so far, I'll definitely have to try some mousse then. Are ionising hair-dryers better than regular ones?

Are you certain my hair is low density but with thick strands? Every hairdresser I've met has said my hair is baby-fine, and most comment how ridiculously smooth and soft it is when shaved (which is surely when you'd expect thick hair to coarsest, no?). If that's the case though, maybe that's where I've been going wrong and why it's so damn awkward.

I'll look forward to your full reply, I'm particularly interested in what you think I should with my style in light of the growth pattern.
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01-22-2014, 02:20 PM
Post: #7
RE: Help Needed for Very Fine, Awkward, Straight Hair
(01-22-2014 01:21 AM)rhsccw Wrote:  Thanks for your reply so far, I'll definitely have to try some mousse then. Are ionising hair-dryers better than regular ones?

Are you certain my hair is low density but with thick strands? Every hairdresser I've met has said my hair is baby-fine, and most comment how ridiculously smooth and soft it is when shaved (which is surely when you'd expect thick hair to coarsest, no?). If that's the case though, maybe that's where I've been going wrong and why it's so damn awkward.

I'll look forward to your full reply, I'm particularly interested in what you think I should with my style in light of the growth pattern.

I agree with TMHF that your hair is not fine + most hairdressers don't know rats and get confused with thin hair & low hair density. You have normal to thick hair, that is not the issue, the issue is that you seem to have a low density of hair, so you have from a healthy and normal range of density, the low end. It is a big misconception to confuse the circumference of individual hair strands with the density on the scalp.
Your hair looks good but it is true that when wet your scalp shows a little too much and makes the hair look too damp, this is exactly what happens when hair density is on the low end.
So what you want to do is to go with volume hairstyles and dry styling looks and not textbook side sweeps or slick backs. However you can part your hair to the side or brush back with a hair dryer and hair mousse. I actually think that would look good on you.

You cannot train a cow lick, this is another myth. Hair cannot be trained Smile it just grows as written in your genes. The right diet and supplements and hair care routine can make your hair look better but, if your hair wants to grow in a particular direction, it will grow in that particular direction. If you try to battle it, your hair will look awkward as you report happening to you - usually the hair stands UP when going against the direction of a cowlick if the hair is short.
To style a cowlick, always follow its direction - clockwise/anticlockwise. Also if you want the cowlick to be managed better, grow your hair longer. Considering your hair length, add 5 to 10 centimeters there, so about 2 to 4 inches if you use inches instead of cms.

You may also want to start using a thickening shampoo. What these shampoos do is make your hair strands balloon up a little and look thicker which occupies more space and gives a thicker hair look.
You already have normal to thick hair strands but because of the low density it looks like you have thin hair and your scalp shows thru. A thickening shampoo will help in that sense & they are not expensive, so it will be another tool to use for improving your hair. A good hair thickening shampoo is this one - big size, 1 liter. I also recommend you to get the thickening conditioner too if it's ok for your budget, this is the thickening shampoo + conditioner pack recommended - each is one liter so it will last you a very long period of time.

Another option to consider is the sebum coating method from The Men's Hair Book. This method is based around shampooing your hair with a lower frequency & using your fingers in the shower to massage the scalp to spread the sebum from your follicles across the hair strands.
Sebum is like a conditioner and makes your hair stronger & best of all it is free and yours! you have to get it right tho by getting the frequency of your shampoo use just right, but the method works really well and it was invented by Rogelio who developed it first using it with his long curly hair and then made the method public in his blogs and book & even posted the pictures of an experiment he did for 30 days only using the sebum coating method.
It would be a good idea to get now The Men's Hair Book (link) so you can learn to groom your hair and get the hair care right. The book will help a lot and will complement your new hair products and hairstyles.

I will also say to stop using pomade for now and try hair mousse. If you like your hair parted, try doing the side part with hair mousse and the hair dryer. Dont use a comb, only use your fingers so the side part looks a bit shaggy and messy which also gives more volume to your hair. Side swept styles are "flat" styles which is not a good option for men with low hair density. If you havent already, then browse our celebrity hairstyles section so you can see the huge variety of styles depending on the guy. These are the guys you want to read about for side part styles:

Zachary Quinto: see the huge difference between the slicked hair and the volume hair! For his volume styles he looks to be using a hair wax instead of mousse and a good hair wax for natural volume is the TIGI hair wax.
David Villa
Fabio Coentrao: this guy is obsessed with hair dryers lol but uses them to his advantage as you can see.
Brendon Urie: classic example of a dude with thick hair and low to medium hair density. He actually is going bald but even in his young years he never had high density. His hair looks similar to your hair wrt density/thickness. Btw just because u have low density it does NOT mean you will go bald Smile
Gareth Bale: this guy rocked the undercut in 2013. He has medium to high hair density but his hair was never styled greatly, even the faux hawks etc were done bad. Then he got an undercut with a brushed up style in 2013 and voila, everyone wanted to be his friend and women in Spain saying how cute he looked as he arrived to Real Madrid with the brushed up undercut lol I think that kinda hairstyle will be a great option for you using hair mousse + hair dryer. This is the style of Gareth Bale am talking about:

[Image: gareth-bale-gareth-bale-at-the-adidas_3530826.jpg]


Roman Dauriac: low to mid density + medium thickness hair strands - from what I can see. Has a raised side part, good option if you want to maintain a classic side part without the swept - forget about sweeping for now bro. Btw this is the guy nailing Scarlett Johansson every night so classic side parts do work.

Ok that's all from me lol. Let me summarise it for you:

- Yes, hair mousse + hair dryer should be your next trial. No pomade. If you have the cash, try to get the Tigi hair wax too so you can try hair mousse + hair dryer & hair wax + hair dryer. For the hair mousse, get the one recommended by TMHF. Btw those are the links to the product in Amazon USA & I believe you are based in the UK going by your profile. Even in the UK it is a good idea to get your hair products from Amazon USA (amazon.com) as they have the cheapest prices anywhere online and if you're buying several items like you may be doing now, you can get some really good shipping fees. If you need a UK source of these hair products then tell us and Barber - another mod - can tell you where to get them best in the UK. You can also try the thread we did on Joey Essex's hair and hairstyles as I posted lots of hair products found in Amazon UK that will work for your case too and that were advised by Barber.

- Consider hairstyles with more volume. If you want a side part, then do it with fingers + hair dryer + mousse. You must get volume. Forget about wet look hairstyles as you don't have the density to get them right. Your hair is better with volume and products that magnify the volume but with control as the recommended hair mousse and hair wax above provide.

- Cheap hair dryers will fry your hair. I don't know which one you have but you want to get one that has the latest technology like tourmaline, ionic, infrared and-or titanium made. If you have the cash, get this hair dryer without a doubt. If its a bit expensive, then get this other hair dryer. These 2 hair driers will dry your hair faster, better and not damage the hair. Your hair dryer is an investment, think long term and don't get a cheap one that will break in a couple months time.

- Forget about training your hair. For your cowlick, follow its direction or grow your hair longer to be able to style it better. I think an undercut + your hair 5 cms longer + use of hair dryer will work really well.

- Try a hair thickening shampoo. This will help to give more volume to your hair. This is the hair thickening shampoo I recommended above or get the thickening shampoo + thickening conditioner pack if the price is ok for your budget.

- The perfect hair requires experimenting so dont be put off or feel sad or like you dont give a rats. You must however start working a good hair care routine. I think it was you who mentioned that you take the vitamins TMHF mentioned and fish oil. That's a great start!

- Get The Men's Hair Book. This is the only book you will ever need and the only reading you will ever need apart from reading this forum. We know the guy who wrote the book - Rogelio - and he is the authority on hair for men. You will learn everything required for hair care so not just hairstyling. The book also has a huge section about hair myths and one of the myths is training hair lol he also covers hair density and other stuff on the structure of hair which is quite useful as it will help you to understand your hair from the basics.

- Drop shampoo frequency following the method from The Men's Hair Book and use the sebum coating method from the book. We will start a guide thread soon about the method but the full guide of the sebum coating method is in the book. Sebum that is well spread across the hair strands will make your hair sturdy, thicker and easier to style & shape.

- See the hairstyles of the celebrity guys in the links listed above as each link is for the thread covering all the hairstyles used by the celebrity. Pay attention to the brush up styles and volume side parts, this is the kinda style you want!
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01-22-2014, 05:56 PM
Post: #8
RE: Help Needed for Very Fine, Awkward, Straight Hair
Damn, big J! You really had something to say Big Grin

Can you analyze me next? LOL j/k Great job helping out and pretty accurate advice.

rhsccw, do everything Jurgen mentioned above as it's pretty much what I was going to say but in an expanded version. The hair products mentioned by J above are great for the goal of yours and I too think that a hairstyle that emphasizes voluminous hair will work very well with you. The hair mousse and hair dryer will fit in very well for this purpose and, since you mention that you have hair spray, you can finish off by using a little hair spray to hold the volume-styled hair (brush up is a good first option).

Get The Men's Hair Book too, lots of golden advice there that will be applicable to your situation as the book is big on hair care and not just hairstyling. Read more on the forum if needed, but I suggest you get on with the layout posted above by Jurgen (and which I agree with) and then report back with the results. Considering you have a taper haircut, you don't need a haircut straightaway although you may want to go for a shorter taper or a fade taper haircut to accentuate the hair on the top and give the illusion of even bigger hair.

Godspeed Smile

I'm one of the admins of this forum. Any questions/issue? Contact me directly or any of the moderators. We welcome any feedback to improve our community.

You can also check out our forum's BEST HAIR PRODUCTS FOR MEN thread to read opinions and useful information on men's hair products.
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01-23-2014, 12:20 PM
Post: #9
RE: Help Needed for Very Fine, Awkward, Straight Hair
Wow, thank you both for your input. It's refreshing getting info that applies to me directly, especially when the net is seemingly full of guide that are aimed at women, and those that are aimed at men are very generic and typically based on high density, thick hair. I can't believe that all this time I thought I had baby-fine hair from what people were telling me, and as the traits seemed the same (scalp visible when wet, quick to dry, greasy etc.) that just reinforced things for me. At least now I can be completely sure as to how to treat my hair, based on the type.

I've given mousse a go for the last couple of days instead of the usual gel + pomade, and while it isn't the perfect product for my hair type (I borrowed some heat defence curl stuff from my girlfriend!), I did get decent volume from it. I've never understood what is special about mousse compared to other products though; in my eyes the thing that makes it 'mousse' is how it looks when it comes out of the can. But then of course it turns into a liquid once rubbed between the hands, so why not supply it as a liquid?

Anyway, I'll have to get hold of the product that you both recommend and see how that turns out. Likewise with the hair dryer. At the moment I have a small and very cheap one, but at least it doesn't get hot enough to burn. However, I will invest in a "proper" one.

Re: thickening shampoos and conditioners, I have tried quite a few and noticed zero difference between those and regular products from the same range. In fact, I stopped using conditioners altogether as I found my hair became too smooth to hold! I don't believe the hair was weighed down, I think there was just less friction between each strand. I decided to simply rinse my hair in the shower today too, rather than shampoo as I normally do. It actually turned out fine, not greasy at all. I think I'll alternate days with it. No way would I have worn it straight from bed though.

Okay, so swept styles are out due to the flatness of them. That's no problem as I generally give my hair a bit of volume anyway and prefer it that way. The problem remains though with the growth pattern; I can't train the cowlick, so that means with any of the classic styles such as side parts I should go from left to right. I still have that god damn awkward crown on the wrong side and spiralling in the wrong direction! Is there anything at all I can do with this? I know I can't make it flow the other way, but perhaps there are cuts I can get that help work around it? How would I wear a side part?

Thanks guys, you've been great.
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02-01-2014, 09:34 AM
Post: #10
RE: Help Needed for Very Fine, Awkward, Straight Hair
I guess my hair really is that awkward Sad Seriously, I'm open to ideas if there is another way I can have my hair cut so that my crown is not being forced to lay in the wrong direction. I hate how it looks like I'm balding if I brush up from left to right. It's driving me crazy, and finding a position where it doesn't look too bad is the single most time-consuming part of styling my hair in the morning.

On a positive note, not shampooing every day does seem to have a good effect on my hair. I always thought it would appear really greasy when it's just rinsed, but I actually prefer how it looks and feels now.
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